Gruss aus Finnland

Welcher Mensch steckt hinter dem neuen User ?
Benutzeravatar
Joan
Beiträge: 2445
Registriert: 25.11.2007, 11:05
Wohnort: München
Status: Offline

Re: Gruss aus Finnland

Beitrag von Joan » 17.12.2017, 02:04

It was a lot of manual labour in the times and with some extra anything was possible i heard.
The color code was a double letter for that matter. But for sure they preferred the simpler ones.
Commodore Coupe GMP (Grand Mystère Plaisir), Automatic Bj. '71

Benutzeravatar
CH-GS
Beiträge: 845
Registriert: 27.12.2007, 21:59
Wohnort: RLP
Status: Offline

Re: Gruss aus Finnland

Beitrag von CH-GS » 17.12.2017, 09:16

Thanks for providing your numbers. Your car according to the stats is earlier production than you guessed I'd say.
My car has a vin starting with 4189 and was produced Feb.23rd according to the now defunct (I think) Opel Research Center report from 2007 you could have asked in the past. First registeration in March 1968 in Switzerland. While the supposed scheduled production code issue on the second line of the Adrema plate is a matter of debate it happens to fit quite well with my car and also taking into consideration your vin, this car should be produced about a week after mine. You could check your engine number as well if it is still original, mine is 19 HL 1213, it shouldn't be too far off with an estimated 5-6000 Sprints produced in 1968. It probably should still have the old Version of the carburator linkage. Do you still have the rev Counter with the silver trim circle or already the black one ? Most likely it also still had the satin silver painted grille surround for the Fenders and Hood, but this was usually erased with a repaint.

The codes for your car fit as it seems, the short plastic console should have been replaced at some Point, the old Version wasn't listed anymore in the last parts catalogs I guess it might have not been any more available if replacement was necessary.

The 246 is the interior code for red seats with fabric inserts in L-trim. Second line first three Digits give a production for first Quarter, 51st day (debated), I have 147 there. 461-45 Ampere generator, 571-Sprint Option, 595-laminated windshield, 631-probably blackwall 165SR 14 tires. About as low optioned as mine, it additionally came with 633-red line tires and also has the code for Hand brake warning light-521, heated rear window-564 and also 514 for the additional high beams which should actually be Standard Equipment with a Sprint. The car was Family owned for about four decades and remains unrestored, while very well cared for it had some parts replaced and some detailing done including a partial repaint, but still is a good reference if you Need some Detail shots for reference; for some reason I only got this one pic uploaded.

Bild

Benutzeravatar
Greaser
Beiträge: 1650
Registriert: 17.01.2008, 09:03
Wohnort: Westerwald
Status: Offline

Re: Gruss aus Finnland

Beitrag von Greaser » 18.12.2017, 08:25

stt1 hat geschrieben:
16.12.2017, 22:11

Thanks Michael,

Really nice looking cars, silver with black stripes is so cool combination on these...
Thank you for the compliments! Obviously my first owner did something right ;) I dig it, too.
stt1 hat geschrieben:
16.12.2017, 22:11
Redline tyres would have been cool, but apparently they might have been "too wild" for the Finnish import program and they were not added. I have seen some plates of GS Commodore and Rekord Sprint here and I think none of them had 633...
Well, it might have also been the extra money Opel took for the fancy stuff... According to a Rekord-price list from January 1968 I have in my collection, redline tires added DM 138.50 + 10% VAT to your bill. This option officially was limited to Sprint-applications only. Blackwall radials were standard for Sprints.

A two-tone paint scheme was an option which set you back another DM 77.50 + VAT by January 1968. It was officially available for all Rekord sedan and Caravan applications. The only exceptions are the Coupé and the "Lieferwagen", so your early Sprint theoretically could have been ordered this way. However, if you really plan to do this, one of the tougher tasks will be finding the correct trim which sits underneath the rear window and goes around the corner on the C-pillars towards the rear side windows... It sits in the same place like for vinyl roof applications, but it is a bit wider.

Like Klaus said, your car is surely older than you might have thought. My car's VIN starts with (17 = 4TL) 4255... with an estimated build date in the second half of May 1968. It was first registered July 10, 1968 in Belgium and the engine number is 19HL-0003594. Your car is somewhere in between ours, obviously a bit closer to Klaus' than mine. BTW, mine already carries the small tach with complete black face and glass without any hole in the middle.

Maybe the owner of the other sedan finds his way here one day, too :D

Kind regards
Michael
Die Straßenverkehrsordnung verstößt gegen meinen Fahrstil!

stt1
Beiträge: 76
Registriert: 14.12.2017, 12:36
Status: Online

Re: Gruss aus Finnland

Beitrag von stt1 » 18.12.2017, 10:48

CH-GS hat geschrieben:
17.12.2017, 09:16
Thanks for providing your numbers. Your car according to the stats is earlier production than you guessed I'd say.
My car has a vin starting with 4189 and was produced Feb.23rd according to the now defunct (I think) Opel Research Center report from 2007 you could have asked in the past. First registeration in March 1968 in Switzerland. While the supposed scheduled production code issue on the second line of the Adrema plate is a matter of debate it happens to fit quite well with my car and also taking into consideration your vin, this car should be produced about a week after mine. You could check your engine number as well if it is still original, mine is 19 HL 1213, it shouldn't be too far off with an estimated 5-6000 Sprints produced in 1968. It probably should still have the old Version of the carburator linkage. Do you still have the rev Counter with the silver trim circle or already the black one ? Most likely it also still had the satin silver painted grille surround for the Fenders and Hood, but this was usually erased with a repaint.

The codes for your car fit as it seems, the short plastic console should have been replaced at some Point, the old Version wasn't listed anymore in the last parts catalogs I guess it might have not been any more available if replacement was necessary.

The 246 is the interior code for red seats with fabric inserts in L-trim. Second line first three Digits give a production for first Quarter, 51st day (debated), I have 147 there. 461-45 Ampere generator, 571-Sprint Option, 595-laminated windshield, 631-probably blackwall 165SR 14 tires. About as low optioned as mine, it additionally came with 633-red line tires and also has the code for Hand brake warning light-521, heated rear window-564 and also 514 for the additional high beams which should actually be Standard Equipment with a Sprint. The car was Family owned for about four decades and remains unrestored, while very well cared for it had some parts replaced and some detailing done including a partial repaint, but still is a good reference if you Need some Detail shots for reference; for some reason I only got this one pic uploaded.

Bild
This Opel Research Center does not exist anymore? And nobody else is doing that job?

Ok, it really might be earlier than I was expecting. As far as I know the first registration date for the car was early September and I was trying to match it more accurate with the equipment installed (and made also assumption that car would have been registered asap it arrived here maybe after 1 (or 2) month after putting together in factory)... But maybe car was not sold so fast and it was in the Opel showroom without registration...

About the plastic short console - according to graf-vlad -site the instruments and also panel changed June-August 1968. This made me also thinking that car would be made during summer. But it's true that older extra instruments on plastic panel is quite odd combination.

Silver surrounding for the grill - I'll check if I can find any mark under the paint layer(s), so far I haven't noted that there would be anything than gold color under the newer golden layer.

Instruments on main panel is a bit mix-up. The rev-counter has silver plate, but others are with black plates. I have no idea what has happened here, something was changed for sure. Rev counter glass has the black "knob" on it covering the hole. When I remove the panel I can take a look on the stamped dates on instruments - if those stamps are still visible. Steel frame for instrument panel is black and also glove box door is black.

Original engine code is gone... If that could be found somehow, it would be great...

BTW, the inside door handles (opening door, setting the window down/up) are the newer type, but locking handle for ventilation window is older type. 1967 they had similar style than previous Rekord and then those handles slowly changed to newer type (I have seen cars with mixed handle sets as well). Rear window opening handles are the older type (bis -body) with the rubber.

Thanks a lot for identification for the codes - I was not able to find all of them. Do you know what the 695 stands for?

I also find it odd that 521 is separate equipment - as far as I know it should be a part of L-package :)

For some reason that picture link didn't work. Anyway, I would be really happy to have a really good quality photos taken in several angles from engine room. My car has lived it's life and there are several hacks in electric cabling, there was extra electric gas pump installed and so on. I'm trying to get it as original as it was and good photos would help. Also I have to figure out the carburetor linkages. I have three sets of them, but I'm suspecting that none of them is actually complete (mostly missing part between the fire wall and carbs) and they are at least from two different variations (three variations exists?). Also it looks like the long link from left to right side has been altered.

There is also one piece of metal welded (original spot-welding) to fire wall which seems to be Sprint specific, also black plastic/rubber is installed still on it. Seems to have function with the linkages, but does that help figuring out which generation linkage should be installed?

MFG: Saku

Benutzeravatar
Joan
Beiträge: 2445
Registriert: 25.11.2007, 11:05
Wohnort: München
Status: Offline

Re: Gruss aus Finnland

Beitrag von Joan » 18.12.2017, 11:01

stt1 hat geschrieben:
18.12.2017, 10:48
This Opel Research Center does not exist anymore? And nobody else is doing that job?
You can contact those guys:
https://www.alt-opel.eu/

I did 2 years ago and they could give me what i needed, you get a certificate for about 100 € which was very helpful in proving my cars lost identity.
In case your motor number is gone its likely the engine is not original anymore but maybe more displacement. Check the block for dates and size.

If you do not get anything out of them i still have the contact of that guy who was contacted by AOIG. But i do not want to publish his email.
So please try first via AOIG.
Commodore Coupe GMP (Grand Mystère Plaisir), Automatic Bj. '71

stt1
Beiträge: 76
Registriert: 14.12.2017, 12:36
Status: Online

Re: Gruss aus Finnland

Beitrag von stt1 » 18.12.2017, 11:04

Greaser hat geschrieben:
18.12.2017, 08:25
Thank you for the compliments! Obviously my first owner did something right ;) I dig it, too.
I would have been actually happier about something other color scheme than gold + red. It's not bad, but red was very usual here and gold is not my favourite on car colors. I might go for some other as the car needs to be painted all over anyway. Trying to keep on some original theme though. :)
Greaser hat geschrieben:
18.12.2017, 08:25
Well, it might have also been the extra money Opel took for the fancy stuff... According to a Rekord-price list from January 1968 I have in my collection, redline tires added DM 138.50 + 10% VAT to your bill.
True, and the taxation here was tight, so it would have cost even more than that when ordered...
Greaser hat geschrieben:
18.12.2017, 08:25
A two-tone paint scheme was an option which set you back another DM 77.50 + VAT by January 1968. It was officially available for all Rekord sedan and Caravan applications. The only exceptions are the Coupé and the "Lieferwagen", so your early Sprint theoretically could have been ordered this way. However, if you really plan to do this, one of the tougher tasks will be finding the correct trim which sits underneath the rear window and goes around the corner on the C-pillars towards the rear side windows... It sits in the same place like for vinyl roof applications, but it is a bit wider.
Not tough actually, I have these trim in new condition. I have kept my eyes open and bought them when I saw those available for a nice price. I have also a spare set which could be usable after polishing. Might be interesting option for having usually looking car. For example original Granada red + black top with black Sprint stripes would look quite cool. Also this would make some other non-original options available like shiny black car with satin black top + satin Sprint stripes. Anyway, most likely I'm looking the paint scheme from Opel original paint models.
Greaser hat geschrieben:
18.12.2017, 08:25
Like Klaus said, your car is surely older than you might have thought. My car's VIN starts with (17 = 4TL) 4255... with an estimated build date in the second half of May 1968. It was first registered July 10, 1968 in Belgium and the engine number is 19HL-0003594. Your car is somewhere in between ours, obviously a bit closer to Klaus' than mine. BTW, mine already carries the small tach with complete black face and glass without any hole in the middle.
At least we are getting closer the actual date, unless there is no other way to get exact information from Opel... I asked from local GM if they still have archived data for my car. They tried to find, but no data was found. This is not a miracle as the head office here has moved several times and some archives has been lost...
Greaser hat geschrieben:
18.12.2017, 08:25
Maybe the owner of the other sedan finds his way here one day, too :D
I can tell him to come, at least he is a frequent visitor in the Finnish old Opel -forum.

- Saku

stt1
Beiträge: 76
Registriert: 14.12.2017, 12:36
Status: Online

Re: Gruss aus Finnland

Beitrag von stt1 » 18.12.2017, 11:16

Joan hat geschrieben:
18.12.2017, 11:01

You can contact those guys:
https://www.alt-opel.eu/

I did 2 years ago and they could give me what i needed, you get a certificate for about 100 € which was very helpful in proving my cars lost identity.
In case your motor number is gone its likely the engine is not original anymore but maybe more displacement. Check the block for dates and size.

If you do not get anything out of them i still have the contact of that guy who was contacted by AOIG. But i do not want to publish his email.
So please try first via AOIG.
Thanks for tip. Were they able to give also the original engine code? That is one of the most interesting fact I would need from them. Also exact build date is important as it affects to engine block type (older block changed to newer type (starter attachment) during early summer 1968).

Edit: I sent E-mail to them, let's see what happens.

Engine is not original for sure. I noted it right away when I went to look at this car earlier this summer. The engine had aluminium plate with new codes attached over the original engine number. This was a typical way here in Finland for couple of firms who offered "change engine service". You would haul your repairable worn old engine without starter etc. to the firm and get another renewed engine from them with reasonable price. This was very common here during 70's and up to late 80's (or even early 90's). I have removed this aluminium plate now and under it was 19S engine code.

I'm not going to put in usual 2.0S or so. This car will have 1.9 in it, and if the code is found, I'll restamp block as it should be.

- Saku

Sprinter68
Beiträge: 141
Registriert: 16.07.2016, 14:05
Wohnort: Bielefeld
Status: Offline

Re: Gruss aus Finnland

Beitrag von Sprinter68 » 18.12.2017, 12:29

Hello Saku!
I am the owner of the 2TL. I wish you much success in the parts procurement and have fun with the car.
If you come across in your search on black door panels that you do not need yourself, think of me. I'm looking for a longer time!

Greetings Frank

Benutzeravatar
Joan
Beiträge: 2445
Registriert: 25.11.2007, 11:05
Wohnort: München
Status: Offline

Re: Gruss aus Finnland

Beitrag von Joan » 18.12.2017, 13:45

You get the Motor number, colors, production date and dealer plus the type number:
Like:
13275
Commodore Coupe (13), Export Lenkrad links (2), 2.5S Motor (120 PS) (7) und Automatik (5)

But it does not work for every car as i heard, might be some gaps in their records.
Commodore Coupe GMP (Grand Mystère Plaisir), Automatic Bj. '71

stt1
Beiträge: 76
Registriert: 14.12.2017, 12:36
Status: Online

Re: Gruss aus Finnland

Beitrag von stt1 » 18.12.2017, 14:32

Sprinter68 hat geschrieben:
18.12.2017, 12:29
Hello Saku!
I am the owner of the 2TL. I wish you much success in the parts procurement and have fun with the car.
If you come across in your search on black door panels that you do not need yourself, think of me. I'm looking for a longer time!

Greetings Frank
Thanks Frank, will keep in mind your request.

stt1
Beiträge: 76
Registriert: 14.12.2017, 12:36
Status: Online

Re: Gruss aus Finnland

Beitrag von stt1 » 18.12.2017, 14:33

Joan hat geschrieben:
18.12.2017, 13:45
You get the Motor number, colors, production date and dealer plus the type number:
Like:
13275
Commodore Coupe (13), Export Lenkrad links (2), 2.5S Motor (120 PS) (7) und Automatik (5)

But it does not work for every car as i heard, might be some gaps in their records.
I wont hold my breath, but keep my fingers crossed :mrgreen:

- Saku

Benutzeravatar
Greaser
Beiträge: 1650
Registriert: 17.01.2008, 09:03
Wohnort: Westerwald
Status: Offline

Re: Gruss aus Finnland

Beitrag von Greaser » 18.12.2017, 17:17

Hi Saku,

here is a pic of the carb linkage in my car:
IMG_0052.JPG
As far as I remember, Klaus' is identical, so yours should look like this, too.
I have also some pictures of a very early Sprint coupé's engine compartment for your reference:
P1070352.jpg
P1070353.jpg
P1070355.jpg
...and this source is also capable of delivering some authentic footage:

click

The darkish coupé shown on revsinstitute obviously went to its owner via GM's Antwerpen plant. It carries two "Typenschilder", like my Belgian sedan does too:
plaquette rekord no VIN.jpg
Kind regards
Michael
Die Straßenverkehrsordnung verstößt gegen meinen Fahrstil!

Benutzeravatar
Greaser
Beiträge: 1650
Registriert: 17.01.2008, 09:03
Wohnort: Westerwald
Status: Offline

Re: Gruss aus Finnland

Beitrag von Greaser » 18.12.2017, 17:29

Oh, 695 is believed to be the code for shipment preparation. This would include the application of a protective wax coat all over the car, adding anti-freeze to the coolant and stuff like that.
Die Straßenverkehrsordnung verstößt gegen meinen Fahrstil!

Benutzeravatar
CH-GS
Beiträge: 845
Registriert: 27.12.2007, 21:59
Wohnort: RLP
Status: Offline

Re: Gruss aus Finnland

Beitrag von CH-GS » 18.12.2017, 18:29

stt1 hat geschrieben:
18.12.2017, 10:48



Instruments on main panel is a bit mix-up. The rev-counter has silver plate, but others are with black plates. I have no idea what has happened here, something was changed for sure. Rev counter glass has the black "knob" on it covering the hole. When I remove the panel I can take a look on the stamped dates on instruments - if those stamps are still visible. Steel frame for instrument panel is black and also glove box door is black.

That's correct for the earliest Sprints, including the different faces and the black knob.



BTW, the inside door handles (opening door, setting the window down/up) are the newer type, but locking handle for ventilation window is older type. 1967 they had similar style than previous Rekord and then those handles slowly changed to newer type (I have seen cars with mixed handle sets as well). Rear window opening handles are the older type (bis -body) with the rubber.

This should be correct for an early car, I can confirm this on my four door except for the rear Windows of course.




MFG: Saku

Benutzeravatar
CH-GS
Beiträge: 845
Registriert: 27.12.2007, 21:59
Wohnort: RLP
Status: Offline

Re: Gruss aus Finnland

Beitrag von CH-GS » 18.12.2017, 18:32

CH-GS hat geschrieben:
18.12.2017, 18:29
stt1 hat geschrieben:
18.12.2017, 10:48



Instruments on main panel is a bit mix-up. The rev-counter has silver plate, but others are with black plates. I have no idea what has happened here, something was changed for sure. Rev counter glass has the black "knob" on it covering the hole. When I remove the panel I can take a look on the stamped dates on instruments - if those stamps are still visible. Steel frame for instrument panel is black and also glove box door is black.

That's correct for the earliest Sprints, including the different faces and the black knob.



BTW, the inside door handles (opening door, setting the window down/up) are the newer type, but locking handle for ventilation window is older type. 1967 they had similar style than previous Rekord and then those handles slowly changed to newer type (I have seen cars with mixed handle sets as well). Rear window opening handles are the older type (bis -body) with the rubber.

This should be correct for an early car, I can confirm this on my four door except for the rear Windows of course.




MFG: Saku
The car is somewhere else in storage, I can get back to you with some more Details as soon as the weathers a bit better.

Antworten

Wer ist online?

Mitglieder in diesem Forum: 0 Mitglieder und 1 Gast